Foreign Minister Taro Aso is also quoted in the Nihon Keizai Shimbun as saying that Japan should not worry about how it is viewed by other countries or whether it has become isolated:
The only countries in the world that talk about Yasukuni are China and South Korea... We don't have to worry about whether Japan is isolated or is not being liked.Reuters adds that the sixty-five-year-old Aso, an outspoken member of the ruling party's conservative camp, has landed himself in hot water over remarks regarding Japan's past record in Asia. In May 2003, Aso caused an uproar in South Korea after he made comments interpreted as an attempt to justify some of the actions imperial Japan imposed on Koreans. Japanese colonial authorities essentially forced most Koreans to change their names to Japanese ones during the time, but Aso said that the measure initially began when some Koreans had asked for Japanese names. Sphere: Related Content
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I'll wait until the gun is fired :)
ReplyDeleteActually, I'll leave a link to some pictures I took one time at Yasukuni Shrine.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.shutterbook.com/albums/MasshiroHakujin/28681
There are also a few pictures (because pictures technically aren't allowed I didn't take many) of the "museum" as well. Personally I see the shrine itself as being not a war memorial, but a peace memorial (by presenting all these souls that were lost), however the "museum" is filled with many ... questionable statements. I think that's why you'll notice no one ever goes to the museum. I did, once, it was empty besides myself and a Chinese friend. We went to see what all the trouble was about.
I paid my 800 yen and respected the "no photography" rule. I dutifully wrote down choice quotes from the displays.
ReplyDeleteAs I plan to address in an upcoming post, the shrine's museum makes it clear that the once-pacifist shrine has been hijacked by the worst form of apologism.
I certainly agree that the museum is a problem, and I think Koizumi etc. do too and show that by not going. I don't think of the museum and the shrine as one in the same. The shrine is still the same shrine regardless of the museum next to it in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteAs for the no photo rule, to my defense the first "no photography" sign did not come up on the route until after I took the three pictures :D.
I certainly agree that the museum is a problem, and I think Koizumi etc. do too and show that by not going.
ReplyDeleteIt's called having one's cake and eating it, too. They are pandering to the extreme right-wing while pretending they're not.
I don't think of the museum and the shrine as one in the same. The shrine is still the same shrine regardless of the museum next to it in my opinion.
That's an awfully convenient opinion. The museum is run as part of the shrine. On the official website for the shrine, the museum is right there.
And saying the shrine is still the shrine doesn't cut it. The shrine became a right-wing tool as soon as the decision was made to consider Class-A war criminals who were not killed by war as casualties of the war. That was saying that the charges before them, the charges of waging a murderous war, were illegitimate.
The extreme right-wing gets its stature raised by the visits, whether he goes to the museum or not.
As for the no photo rule, to my defense the first "no photography" sign did not come up on the route until after I took the three pictures :D.
The signs were right at the front when I went there.
I can't wait for your post Kush!
ReplyDeleteThe government didn't choose to honor the A-Class war criminals, that was something chosen by the leaders of the shrine. Once can say that if they just don't go to the shrine, then it's not a problem. Maybe it's not a problem for Korea and China, but what about for the family members of the other 2.4 million souls that are at Yasukuni? For many of them it is a problem. Ultimately, in my opinion, the leaders of Japan work for the people of Japan. Not China, not Korea.
ReplyDeleteAgain, I agree that those deemed A-Class war criminals should not have been considered casualties of war, but the leaders of the shrine did. Attempts have been made to change that, but they have failed.
I strongly believe in the separation of church and state. What a church does, is what a church does. What the government does is what the government does. However, the separation does NOT prevent government leaders from having a religion.
I would like to hear what you guys think the solution to this problem would be. What would you do to try and appease the Chinese and the Korean, and also your own Japanese people? You can't make everyone happy, it just wont happen. But the Chinese people don't elect the leaders of Japan.
I'm sorry if I'm messing up your guys' world by presenting an opinion that differs from your own, but it wouldn't hurt to consider the other side just as you tell me to do as well.
This really has more to do with it than religion. You are simplifying it way too much. Koizumi's visit to Yasukuni is a sign of a Japan not in touch with its' own past. I don't argue with Koizumi's right to visit as a private citizen, but he isn't such and every visit is followed by news cameras from all around the world. The message from Koizumi is that there is nothing to be repentent about and that Japan should continue as normal. This whole idea that Koizumi should answer to his own people before others really doesn't hold water for two reasons. One, most Japanese profess to be non-religious, in fact I believe that have one of the highest rates of athiesm in the world, and so I am sure if Koizumi did not go no offence would be forthcoming. He is doing it for himself first and foremost and also for the small right wing faction in Japan that holds so much sway over politics there. Secondly, two of Japan's major, and I mean major, trading partners are Korea and China. Being a nation whose economy is based almost solely on trade, do you think constantly ignoring major concerns of neighbour states is looking after his own people?
ReplyDeleteNo need to apologise for holding the wrong view, some people have to be like that I suppose.
I have nicknamed the place "The Museum of Lies, Distortions, and Omissions." When I visited during the Cherry Blossom Festival, there were quite a few other patrons although I wouldn't say it was crowded. In the comments book at the end of the tour, I pointed out some of the lies, distortions, and omissions.
ReplyDeleteI'm looking forward to your piece, Kushibo. I think the content of the museum is more offensive than the prime minister's visits to the shrine.
"No need to apologise for holding the wrong view, some people have to be like that I suppose." Well..... I dunno if I'm supposed to say thanks or... If I thought my view was wrong, then I certainly wouldn't be out trying to share it. I could say the same thing about your view as well, simply calling it wrong solely because it is different from my own.
ReplyDeleteThe news cameras from around the world following Koizumi when he visits Yasukuni, are hardly anything he can control. If he were to try and stop the cameras, that would be called censorship. He has to make it known when he plans on going to Yasukuni, not because he's going to Yasukuni, but because he has to pay for the use of government vehicles to go on a private matter. Paperwork needs to be filled. People say that since he is using government cars, he is going as a member of the government representing the government. I disagree with that because taking his own car is not an option. As mentioned earlier before, he cannot turn of the fact that he is the PM whenever he pleases. If he where to try and take his own car, and go without cars surrounding the car he is in, it's possible that he could A) never make it, B) be assassinated on the way.
"I am sure if Koizumi did not go no offence would be forthcoming." That would be an incorrect statement. For evidence, I will point you to 「靖国問題」"The Yasukuni Issue/Problem" by 高橋哲哉 Takahashi Tetsuya. Mr. Takahashi is a philosopher, which brings an interesting perspective on the issue as opposed to the view from politicians or historians. Page 13. A quote from written testimony from the "Yasukuni Wives", wives of men enshrined at Yasukuni: 「靖国神社を汚すくらいなら私自身を百万回殺してください。たった一言靖国神社を罵倒する言葉を聞くだけで、私自身の身が切り裂かれ、全身の血が逆流してあふれだし、それが見渡す限り戦士達の血の海となって広がって行くのがみえるようです。」"If you're going to do something as horrible as dirty Yasukuni Shrine, then please kill me 1 million times. By hearing just one word that abuses Yasukuni Shrine, it's as I myself were torn to shreds, the blood from my entire body where sucked out and became a sea of blood of all the soldiers as far as the eye can see." Now, Mr. Takahashi points out that this statement is clearly an exaggeration, and their blood is not being sucked out of their veins, but that does not change the fact that they feels that strongly about Yasukuni. The statement continues to say that they are sad for those who suffered at the hands of Imperial Japan, but their husbands and everyone else at Yasukuni were told, [brainwashed if you will, because many Japanese people compare pre-war and war time Japan to modern North Korea], that if they died fighting, they would become Gods at Yasukuni, and no one has the right to take that away from them after the fact. (I gave the original Japanese incase anyone wants to double-check my translation. I wouldn't trust me to not change it around if I was me :D)
”The message from Koizumi is that there is nothing to be repentent about and that Japan should continue as normal”
-2001/10/15 Koizumi apologizes for the pain and suffering as a result of the Japanese occupation of S. Korea (韓国国民).
-2001, Asian Woman's Fund, Koizumi apologizes for comfort woman.
-2002/9/17 Koizumi apologizes for the pain and suffering as a result of the occupation of the Korean peninsula (朝鮮)
-2003/8/15 Koizumi apologizes for the pain and suffering of all Asian people as a result of Imperial Japan's occupation.
-2005/4/22 Koizumi apologizes for the pain and suffering of all Asian people as a result of Imperial Japan's occupation. He vows that while Japan may have become a great economic power in the world, never again will it become a military one.
-2005/8/15 Koizumi apologizes to the people of Korea, China, and the rest of Asia for the pain and suffering as a result of Imperial Japan's occupation. Toot's his own horn by mentioning that Japan has been at peace for 60 years.
I count 6 apologies from Koizumi alone (for a note, he's been to Yasukini 5 times since becoming PM.)
On this issue of trade with China and Korea: Just as China and Korea are major trading partners for Japan, Japan is also a major trading partner of China and Korea. None of these three countries could survive without the other two. That is why China and Korea are unable to completely ban all contact with Japan, in an attempt to force Japan to collapse, China and Korea would collapse themselves. If this issue was truly that meaningful to the people of China and Korea I believe they would ban everything Japanese regardless.
People will always fear what they do not understand. From a Chinese or Korean point of view, this looks just as they say it does, however it looks different on the other side of the Sea of Japan. IF Japan does attack, then Korea and China were right, and the world will support them. However, if Korea and China can not contain their itchy trigger fingers and attack first... I think many people are looking at this issue from only the side of Korea/China -- not Japan. As a result, they don't understand Japan, and fear it accordingly. I admittedly do not fully understand China or Korea either. In my honest opinion, China is going to attack Japan in the year 2009 (after Taiwan in 2008 that is). Perhaps I'm just fearing them because I do not understand. Ideally, we're all just fearing each other for no good reason. The problem comes when one side takes their fears to the next level and attacks. I don't see Japan attacking in the future. One reason is that while Chinese and Korean leaders are working to build up their military might, Japanese leaders are praying for peace while remembering the 2.4 million lives they've lost in previous silly wars.
Quick addition...
ReplyDeleteAs I say I do no fully understand Korea and China. However, I think that even if I did fully understand China and Korea, that wouldn't change how I think many Japanese people think. How Korean people think is how Korean people think. How Chinese people think is how Chinese people think. How Japanese people think is how Japanese people think. Even if every last soul in the whole world thinks that Japan is going to attack, they haven't actually done it until they actually do. Essentially, until Japan actually does attack, every last soul in the world would be wrong. As I mentioned just a sec. ago, I do not think Japan will be attacking.
That was a long post, Darin, and I don't have time to get into it right now. Two points, though. First, Koreans fear a resurgent Japan because prior to Japan's defeat, it invaded Korea three times from 1894 and then brutally occupied it for forty years. The Chinese, I'm guessing, fear a resurgent China because they were invaded by Japan and brutally occupied, too.
ReplyDeleteI don't know why Japan would fear a Korean invasion.
Second, you wrote: The statement continues to say that they are sad for those who suffered at the hands of Imperial Japan, but their husbands and everyone else at Yasukuni were told, [brainwashed if you will, because many Japanese people compare pre-war and war time Japan to modern North Korea], that if they died fighting, they would become Gods at Yasukuni, and no one has the right to take that away from them after the fact.
The fourteen Class-A war criminals did NOT "die fighting." They do not belong there in the first place. By placing them there, those responsible for the shrine have politicized it.
As I wrote here (this is an as-yet unrefined part of my Yasukuni post), they were placed there as a way for the right-wing to express that Japan was not an aggressor but a victim, especially of America, who they call the real culprit in causing the war.
yea it got long, sorry :/
ReplyDelete"I don't know why Japan would fear a Korean invasion." Yea, I don't see why they would either, and I don't think they do. But... I didn't say they did, nor that I do (I do think that China will though).
"The fourteen Class-A war criminals did NOT "die fighting." They do not belong there in the first place. By placing them there, those responsible for the shrine have politicized it."
I agree, they shouldn't be their. But the government didn't put them their, and I do not think they are enough alone to ignore the other 2.4 million people enshrined. The closest thing to a possible solution would be to build another peace memorial somewhere where people could go to it, but the souls of the dead cannot be transfered, so it wouldn't really solve anything. If people want to go worship the souls, they have no choice but to go to Yasukuni no matter how many other temples/shrines/walls with names on them you build. (People tried to get the 14 A-Class war criminals removed but the shrine said 'no'. A group of Taiwanese tried to get the souls of their ancestors removed but the shrine said 'no'.)
The part with the statement from the women was used to show that "I am sure if Koizumi did not go no offence would be forthcoming" is an incorrect assumption. Again, I agree that the A-Class war criminals shouldn't not be there, but I see no reason why one can't honor their deceased husband. For example: my father died when I was very young. His birthday was April 20th. April 20th also happens to be Hitler's birthday. Does that mean I can't celebrate my fathers birthday? Also, a comment was made which said something to the effect of people from Kagoshima don't have to go to Yasukuni, there are plenty of other shrines in Kagoshima. Maybe so, but if their grandfather/father/husband isn't enshrined at that shrine, then it's pointless. That's like telling me to go to the local grave site here when what I really want to do is go to my fathers grave. Now you didn't say that Kushibo, but you can understand how inhuman of a statement that is right?
Again, I'm here posting after I thought I was done.. Sorry guys.. I should have gotten all this included in one post :/
ReplyDeleteI want to make sure it's understood that I'm not looking for sympathy for my situation. I'm just trying to make a reference that may be a little more understandable to help people think of "The Japanese Attackers" as also, "The Japanese Human Beings."
The family members of those enshrined have a right to visit. I'm sure everyone can agree. Those enshrined have a right to a peaceful afterlife. In the shinto religion, it is a very, very terrible thing to speak badly of someone after they have died. Every time someone speaks against Yasukuni, it is the same as speaking poorly about the souls enshrined. It is essentially, the ultimate sin. Every time people get angry and upset about Yasukuni, those who believe in Yasukuni look down more and more on those people. By saying the countries own Prime Minister can not visit Yasukuni Shrine, you're terribly insulting everyone connected to it - which is every Japanese person in the entire world. Remember, Yasukuni dates back to the founding wars of Japan, the wars that took it from many countries, to one. As I'm sure you've heard, there is a strong anti Chinese/Korean feeling spreading through the extremists of Japan. Every time China and Korea get upset, those extremest numbers grow, as does their hate. To believers of the shinto religion, speaking poorly of Yasukuni, is like forcing a Christian to walk on a painting of the Virgin Marry (I choose that for two reasons. Many Koreans are Christians, and that is how the Japanese tested to see if you where Christian when Christianity was outlawed during the 鎖国 when Japan was closed off.)
Now, the issue of many, if not most, people in Japan being atheist. That is true, most people in Japan say they are atheist, however, they are wrong. The Imperial Japanese government was able to push Japan to war by abusing the shinto religion. It's exactly the same way Islam is being abused today. True Islam isn't bad at all, but extremists are abusing it. At heart, Shinto isn't bad either, but you can easily abuse it to say that the "gods want the oil from China, so lets go get it!". The shinto religion is so well intertwined into Japanese society that it is no longer a religion, but THE culture. If 84% percent of Japanese people are atheist (http://www.pitzer.edu/academics/faculty/zuckerman/atheism.html), why do "most follow “the customs of Japanese traditional religion.”"? Because they're Japanese, that's why. The shinto religion is something that can never be removed from Japan, and other religions, such as Christianity, can never be understood by Japan - as long as Japan speaks Japanese natively (people are very limited by their language). (See Silence 沈黙, by Shusaku Endo 遠藤周作. Amazon has the English translation version. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0800871863/103-2450852-2456614?v=glance&n=283155&v=glance as well as the Japanese one too http://www.amazon.co.jp/exec/obidos/ASIN/410303517X/ref=pd_bxgy_text_1/250-2095944-4236235)
The Yasukuni issue, has everything to do with religion. The people of Korea and China, are asking, no, demanding, that Japan do something that it cannot do, They are demanding Japan take a big steaming crap on their dead relatives. It's not going to happen. What Korea and other nations should be doing instead, is be making sure that the Japanese culture/religion is not abused again. And you can argue, rightfully so, that they're doing that right now. They're making sure that Koizumi doesn't start another holy war. But they're going about it all wrong. They're making enemies and loosing friends fast in Japan. I also believe that they’re wrong on this occasion, and I don’t see Koizumi starting a war. It’s similar to “the boy who cried wolf.” The Japanese people, and the world, are going to get so sick of hearing China and Korea scream about how the Japanese are trying to kill them when they’re not, that if they actually do try, no one will care.
I do not know what the solution to the problem is. I do know that one side cannot simply decide the problem for both. I think that Korea/China need to consider the Japanese side of the situation just as much as Japan needs to consider their side too. However, I can tell you that any plan involving changing anything with Yasukuni Shrine (burn the museaum down though) will not work.
So if I’m talking about how Japanese people are trapped inside the Shinto religion, how can they possibly have seperation of church and state as I say they do? Legally, they do. Legally, one can choose not to be shinto, but that doesn’t mean they truely can choose in practice. To some extent people do choose. I, as well as some of my friends, refused to stand for the playing of “kimi ga yo” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimi_Ga_Yo#Controversy) at graduation. I think that “national anthem” needs to go fast. But I went to the shrine on New Years Eve with some those very same people I remained seated with, and they told me all about Japanese “culture” on said occasion.
As I said, I do not now the solution to the problem. Perhaps we can all work together to find one. One can present something, and then other can say why that wont work, and then back and forth until we find something that satisfies all parties. Now we’re not politicians, but the politicians aren’t doing this either, so it would be good to help us better understand eachother, intead of just saying “you don’t have to appologize for being wrong.”
How does this sound?:
“I do, however, agree with Asian nations seeking compensation from the Japanese over the atrocities committed during World War II, and I feel that most Japanese citizens do too.
However, I disagree with the way China and other nations are going about this.
The ordinary Japanese public did not commit the crimes, and the Japanese government did not commit the crimes either. The Japanese Empire, no longer in existence, committed those crimes, and neither Japan nor its people should have to pay for them.
Instead, I feel that these attacks should be aimed at what remains of the empire -- the emperor.
If groups were to seek compensation from the emperor, I feel that they would receive more support from the world, and from Japanese people themselves.” (http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/editorials/archives/2005/04/20/2003251302)